The Big Idea recently announced the release of Rattle Records remix compilation of Richard Nunns' and Hirini Melbourne's recordings of traditional Maori instruments. In a departure from Rattle's classical template, several local electronica artists added some digital spark to the original recording Te Ku Te Whe. The Big Idea's Isaac Davison spoke to Rattle producer Tim Gummer, and one of the remixers, former TrinityRoots member Warren Maxwell. The Big Idea recently announced the release of Rattle Records remix compilation of Richard Nunns' and Hirini Melbourne's recordings of traditional Maori instruments. In a departure from Rattle's classical template, several local electronica artists added some digital spark to the original recording Te Ku Te Whe. The Big Idea's Isaac Davison spoke to Rattle producer Tim Gummer, and one of the remixers, former TrinityRoots member Warren Maxwell.Isaac Davison: What was the impetus for the Te Ku Te Whe remix compilation?
Tim Gummer: Once, during a recording, Hirini Melbourne mentioned the possibility of interpreting his music in a different way, with beats and samples. At that point the use of digital manipulation seemed pretty alien. It took a while to process that idea. It is not what we might have expected given the delicacy and ambience of his and Richard's music. But he was innovative in lots of ways.

Jacqui Baker, who is involved with the Rattle label, felt that the remix compilation was something that should happen. So she got the ball running and Chris Macro and I picked it up.

The original album was a breakthrough in its own right. But it was not without controversy. Musicologists asked whether Hirini and Richard's realisations of these instruments and their performance were actually authentic. But they would not pretend to have an absolute sense of the authenticity of everything they'd done with the instruments. They've made a lot of connections to the oral tradition. I think if anyone has the authority to make these recordings of taonga puoro - it is them.

What made your label take on a new, electronic sound?
Tim Gummer: There are a couple of reasons. Firstly, we are already using the digital tools. The original music may not have beats, but it does include digital manipulation. So in a way, those tools are already part of the composition.

Secondly, we had to ask 'where do we go if we are going to look to a different window on this music, and a different audience?' There are some precedents for reinterpreting traditional music. We looked at music we are inspired by in the contemporary classical frame: Steve Reich's remixes (one of the fathers of sampling, a minimalist producer) or in the world music sense, Talvin Singh.

On a personal level, I just really like downbeat. I love producing it.

So what were you looking for in the remixers?
Tim Gummer: We focused on a downbeat aspect and an organic aspect. We selected fairly obvious, established names in the downbeat genre. The original music probably was not going to suit producers with a harder edge to their sound.

We worked hard to match each original track from Te Ku Te Whe with each remixer, and to find something about the character of the remixer's music that might connect with the original track. Quite a few of the remixers responded and said "I feel really great about doing this track".

With several artists there is no question that they have a spiritual affinity with the music. There were others who also had experience with the instruments: Paddy Free had collaborated with Richard Nunns, and Victoria Kelly had worked with samples of Richard's music.

I think there is something special about these instruments, a real intimacy. You want to feel some sense of delicacy, because Hirini has exposed his voice in this way and you don't want to ride ruckshot over that. The one thing I felt wary of was an overprocessed voice. I felt more comfortable with processing the instruments.

But it would be easy to be too precious. The artist had to have a sense of what's appropriate because there are certain boundaries when dealing with traditional music. Some of the remixers have transported the original piece to a very different place. It will be interesting to see how the compilation is received, as it is certainly not for everyone.

What does the sound of Maori instruments bring to a score?
Tim Gummer: Taonga puoro are the instruments of this place. Those sounds do not belong anywhere but Aotearoa. Even if they have something in common with instruments from other cultures, they are inextricably connected with our land and environment.

In the original tracks there is a very spiritual quality - Richard talks about the instruments having a direct connection with the divine. It is hard to think of them in a strictly musical sense.

The instruments are often limited in pitch, and being forced to work within a certain palette is a wonderful thing.

How important do you think it is to puoro's ongoing evolution as an art form for it to be is the reinterpretated and revisited?
Tim Gummer: It is important that music of whatever form is a living thing. Richard's attitude is that traditional music is like a child, still young, but always growing up. But I would not want this compilation to be the only form for people to know taonga puoru. I hope peoples' explorations will always go back to the source of the music.

What did you want to achieve most through the compilation?
Tim Gummer: There was not one primary motive but a whole raft of things. You sometimes have to find a window to a sound that is not the original one. My personal experience is that, if you have any curiosity, when you hear different sounds, it excites you to dig a layer beneath. We wanted to provide that aperture to the original.

I'm challenged about the idea of the creative commons, and opening out music. It is a question we haven't seriously looked at yet - 'What is next?' We do not feel we have to reconsitute some eternal musical concrete. There are a lot of stakeholders in this Maori music, and some spiritual questions. And we are interested in the questions which arise when you do you open up musical forms.

For us as a label it has been an odyssey. We are not known for mixing downbeat or these artists. In a funny way I was a little intimidated by moving into an area that we felt belonged to a lot of other people. But I didn't think we were out of our depth in a production sense. We faced a lot of the questions many remix album makers don't face. We had to keep a sense of continuity despite the individuality of the producers, and hold a sense of togetherness.

Who are your target listeners?
Tim Gummer: We weren't thinking in marketing terms. The original had a big audience. Even people who don't have the album (Te Ku Te Whe) know of Richard and Hirini. There is an audience who have just heard the sounds and they don't know where. It might have been in Once Were Warriors, or fragments on another soundtrack. The sounds have become part of our musical subconscious. So Te Whaiao is a way for the world to access them a more direct way, particularly if the remixes become a window to the original.

What is next for Rattle Records?
Tim Gummer: John Psanthas' album View from Olympus was released in the same week as Te Ku Te Whe. View from Olympus was an insanely huge project to put out, as it involved the NZSO and several other contributors. It was written for the Olympic games in 2004. It is a different territory again, not really in the classical box.

We often do a project and then are straight into the next one. Rattle is very hands-on. We don't wait for people to turn up with master tapes. Te Ku Te Whe and View from Olympus are both special projects. Aspects of both of them may open a lot of doors for who and how we work in future.

On another level we have a lot of catching up to do considering what a lot of New Zealand labels have achieved in exposing local music. But we're knackered at the moment.

****************************************************************************

Warren Maxwell rose into the local musical consciousness through now disbanded TrinityRoots. He remains saxophonist for People's Choice Award winners Fat Freddy's Drop and also fronts Little Bushman. Warren discussed with The Big Idea his remix of the original track "Wai" and the challenge of creating a duet with the voice of someone no longer living.

Isaac Davison: Had you worked directly with either Richard Nunns and Hirini Melbourne before this collaboration?
Warren Maxwell: I did several workshops with Richard and Hirini in taonga puoru. I felt it was important to learn the etiquette of these instruments. Traditional Maori instruments often had other uses besides making music, like being used medicinally.

Was it difficult to maintain the integrity of the original piece?
Warren Maxwell: There was a lot of freedom to do what I wanted, which I savoured. But the original was so minimal and beautiful it was hard to touch it. It was a great challenge.

I loved the purity of Hirini's voice, so I just tried to place beats and sounds underneath without disturbing it. I initially did not want to put my voice in the piece but Tim Gummer encouraged me to duet with the original vocal.

Although I'd had one jam with Hirini Melbourne it was still daunting. I have a belief in the unseen - when I was producing the track I could just imagine Hirini looking down and saying "na I don't like that" or "yeah, put that in, that sounds alright".

I enjoyed the whole process. At times musicians are too pedantic, and are their own worse critics. So the fact that I'm happy with it means the audience should be too. I haven't gotten any feedback yet but I'm sure somewhere down the line someone will give me a hongi.

What does the sound of Maori instruments such as puoro bring to a score?
Warren Maxwell: Taonga puoru help to reiterate the uniqueness of Maori music and culture. The language is significant - when you start to decipher the metaphors and lyrics they are very closely composed with nature.

To get a really good perspective you just need to watch pop music on TV, the tits and ass and so forth, and place beside it taonga puoro. Ask yourself: "Which one has deeper meaning?" "Which one is plastic and which is spiritual?". It is right in front of you. I love the sincerity in dealing with Maori instruments - an audience can hear when someone has whipped something up and emailed it to LA.

The compilation is significant in its composition. What do you think it has achieved the most ?
Warren Maxwell: The most important thing is that the compilation exposes the music to a wider audience, even if it is only a couple of hundred people who weren't familiar with the music already.

Many people have not heard what a purerehua sounds like. And if they have, they commonly associate it with violence. The purerehua is the sound used in Once were Warriors when Jake the Muss was angry. So that is how that instrument is widely understood. But one of its uses was to calm the gods, and another use was to call people in to congregate.

So what did you take away from the experience?
Warren Maxwell: I always have in mind that one day I'll do my own Te Reo Maori production and use my own influences. But most of all the compilation just reminds me of Hirini and Richard and all they have achieved. They are the foremost authorities on Maori traditional music. Richard is a very spiritual person - he gets direction in his dreams. He's a good reminder that there is more out there than the eye can see.

29/10/06