Courtesy of National Radio
Interview with Linda Clark Nine to Noon - October 28 2004

Presenter (Linda Clark): My next guest has had a big year. First he was named Producer of the Year at the annual Tui Music Awards. This week he picked up the coveted Apra Silver Scroll for songwriting. His latest CD - it's called Magic City - has just been released and immediately gone gold. P Money is NZ's best hip hop DJ, he's now officially the best hip-hop producer. He's still only 20 something. I asked him about the competition at this year's Silver Scroll.

Image: P-Money - over hype is a very dangerous thing.Courtesy of National Radio
Interview with Linda Clark Nine to Noon - October 28 2004

Presenter (Linda Clark): My next guest has had a big year. First he was named Producer of the Year at the annual Tui Music Awards. This week he picked up the coveted Apra Silver Scroll for songwriting. His latest CD - it's called Magic City - has just been released and immediately gone gold. P Money is NZ's best hip hop DJ, he's now officially the best hip-hop producer. He's still only 20 something. I asked him about the competition at this year's Silver Scroll.

Image: P-Money - over hype is a very dangerous thing.P-Money: There were lots of talented songwriters and I looked at the bunch of all nominees and thought they were all very deserving. I was quite surprised to take home the scroll. Really. It's an honour. To be honest I try not to let other people validate my work too much as otherwise you could experience some serious lows in the future when they don't nominate you next time. I like to remain pretty confident in what I am doing regardless of the nominations and things.

Presenter: You knew this was a good song.

P-Money: Yes I knew last year when it first came out. I was very confident in the fact that people would like it. I didn't know it would be as big as it was. I thought it would be well received and people would like it and that might be the end of it. To go on and sell a lot of records and to have a number one single with the same track and then to win not only the Tui Award for Songwriter of the Year but also now the Silver Scroll it's something quite out of well - I didn't expect it at all. Nice to get that.

Presenter: Scribe said after the event that it was a sign that hip-hop had come of age in New Zealand? Do you think he is right.

P-Money: Yeah, yeah to a degree I think he's come of age. I think his music is exceptional. And I think there are one or two other artists who are working along similar lines and doing really well and making good music. I don't know if it's a statement about the entire scene..

Presenter: Well actually you have been quite critical of the whole scene.

P-Money: I don't know about critical. I'm a bit scared that the bubble is gonna burst and when you over hype things it gets very dangerous.

Presenter: You mean your bubble.

P-Money: No, no there is all this attention to New Zealand hip-hop. I think it would be nice to just let it grow naturally rather than trying to over hype the scene. Because not everything that comes out is amazing. Not every song that is recorded is excellent. There are a lot of good tracks and there's a lot more than there ever has been. There's a lot more output just in general so all of that is very positive.

Presenter: Isn't that the point though. Isn't the point about critical mass?

P-Money: Yes in that context things are better than they have ever been. So much going on you can't help but get excited about it and want to promote that. I also don't want to be seen or I would hate for people that maybe don't understand hip-hop to be misinformed that certain tracks that they don't like get tagged as "This is great because it's New Zealand hip hop" kind of badge. That's the dangerous thing..

Presenter: Explain to me why are we hearing so much about hip-hop today.

P-Money: Primarily what has happened is that a lot of youth that have grown up with hip-hop being a lot more accessible are now of an age where they are a big bunch of consumers. They are spending money - they are age to come to clubs, and support concerts, buy albums, make their own choices. so therefore the audience has grown bigger. So we can make money, our singles chart well because the buying public is making their choice and they like our music.

Presenter: Yes but the gatekeepers have changed. The attitudes have change Upper Hutt Posse put out some very fine music but it was very hard for them to get sales and radio play.

P-Money: Yeah, Exactly. With their situation they found it a lot tougher. They were very righteous. They were very political. They were very socially minded. They were saying a lot of things that people didn't want to hear. So of course the doors didn't open up for them as easily as for somebody whose not mentioning that stuff. For better or for worse.

Presenter: Your music isn't political is it?

P-Money: Um not overly so, not overly so. I'd say that my stuff is a lot more personal. I'd say that you might find that creeping into my stuff as I get older and I become a bit more aware of what's going on socially. The last couple of years I've just been running around having fun making music now there are a couple of issues that I think that should be spoken about.

Presenter: Is this your early mid-life crisis?

P-Money: I'm 26 now. I'm starting to get a little more serious in my old age. Is 26 old age?
As I get older I think I have become a bit more responsible. When I was younger I couldn't care less to be honest. When I was really young about 12 or 13, 14 my favourite group was Public Enemy. They were one of the most politically outspoken groups in the history of rap. They influenced a lot of people around the world including myself. I was very serious about politics and issues and I thought that stuff was very relevant when I was young but then I thought that I was a little too young to be this serious so I sort of grew out of it.

Presenter: American hip-hop is very serious is it not. lt's associated with black streets and poverty.

P-Money: Yeah that's where the music comes from. That's where most MCs they come from that kind of background. Unfortunately in recent years many kids or MCs that have come out for the most part I don't hear too much social responsibility in their rap. It's just talking about, "I'm from then mean streets. It's real hard and I'm going to be a gangster. I'm gonna do all this bad stuff." But with no justification of why.

Presenter: But that's all just a put on isn't it?

P-Money: Some is and some isn't. A lot of it is bragging for the sake of bragging. Also because it's been proven that violent kind of lifestyle and imagery sells. That's unfortunate too. But it does sell. It does sell in movies and television and action films, seeing people getting hurt. For some reason people like to pay money to see that. It's considered entertaining so that it translates into rap music as well.

Presenter: Here in New Zealand everyone is talking about New Zealand hip-hop having it's own identity - it's a little gentler isn't it.

P-Money: Yeah because the society is. It's a little gentler to be honest. For the most part there aren't as extreme situations. Most kids that I bump into have got life like not too bad. There's definitely some poverty in certain areas. But in the city in the greater Auckland region the wide majority of kids are doing alright. There's not real serious poverty and crime issues for them to deal with. Their concerns are a little more personal. They want to just have a happy life and get away from stress and personal issues rather than "I've got no money so I have to go rob somebody this week".

Presenter: In the States it's associated with American blacks. Here it's predominantly Polynesian isn't it?

P-Money: Yeah

Presenter: And you're the white guy?

P-Money: I'm not the only white guy. But yeah what's your point?

Presenter: Has colour ever been an issue?

P-Money: Not for me

Presenter: But for your audiences?

P-Money: I don't think so. For some people in the past like there would have been a sector in the audience that come to gigs now that have only discovered in the last couple of years that they are welcome. It's their own misconceptions in the past that maybe they weren't welcome they thought that hip-hop was a black thing or a brown thing or not including them. That's what has changed in the last couple of years. White kids have felt more involved. There's no reason that they shouldn't have felt that way.

Presenter: That's part of the mainstreaming.

P-Money: Exactly that is the mainstreaming of hip-hop you know.

Presenter: So how did you get into it? What was the attraction for you?

P-Money: The music was so vibrant and it had so much energy. Um hearing music like or Runt MC or Public Enemy who I mentioned before. The music they were making had this intensity to it that captured my imagination as an 8 or 9 year old. I was mesmerised by it. I thought it was very cool. The guys that I was hanging out all were into the same kind of things and their older brothers were in rap groups. It was just around. Without having a knowledge of the culture and awareness of the different aspects. That stuff was around me. Graffiti on our local streets. Kids breaking at school. Without having an awareness. I wasn't like I was thinking, "this hip-hop culture was very cool I want to get involved- it's just what was going on".

Presenter: Did you ever learn a musical instrument?

P-Money: Nothing traditional. No

Presenter: In hip-hop the turntable is the instrument?

P-Money: Yeah that's the fundamental instrument. That's the origin. Yeah 2 turntables and a microphone. That's the raw essence of what we do.

Presenter: Ok not in your circle but are you aware of a kind of snobbery about that?

P-Money: Do you mean a musical snobbery?

Presenter: Yeah because it isn't an instrument.

P-Money: In the past maybe. There's been a lot of progress made, many DJs have proved that it is an instrument. Over the last five years in particular but even over the last ten years DJing has got a lot more respect. When I was growing up, when I was trying to learn this stuff people would say to me "What are you doing. That's not an instrument. Why are you bothering." They didn't understand or have the foresight to see what I was trying to do. But I stuck with it.

Presenter: You could always hear it in your head? Presumably you sounded as bad as anybody else?

P-Money: Of course I sounded terrible but I loved it and I wanted to achieve what I was hearing on records. I was hearing it from music overseas. I was seeing videos. I was being excited. I was just very enthusiastic. I was just trying to learn. It wasn't as accessible then. Things are a lot more accessible now. There are magazines, videos, DVDs. You can go on the internet and find out how to scratch like in a day. You can find out what equipment to get and how to make things happen. Whereas that information was extremely hard to come by especially being a kid living in Papakura in the late eighties to early nineties that stuff was not accessible. So I was fascinated with it. Every little piece of knowledge I would take that home and practice. I would seek out that piece of equipment to get my hands on it. I was very enthusiastic about the whole thing

Presenter: Had you ever found anything else that you were that enthusiastic about?

P-Money: Nope. Nothing.

Presenter: Did you like school that much?

P-Money: Yeah yeah I was a good student. Um definitely. Up until about 15 or 16 was when I kind of got bored.

Presenter: You obviously are smart. You would have done quite well at school.

P-Money: Yeah I did. Like I say up until about 15 or 16 was when I kind of got bored.
I was very smart and would do okay in tests but when it came down to my work ethic I started slacking off because I felt like what I was doing in class wasn't really or couldn't take me anywhere practically in the world. You know kids get this attitude it's like all of these tests don't really apply to real life. What does trigonometry really do for me? I don't see trigonometry relating to my current career?

Presenter: How old were you when you left school?

P-Money: How old was I? I think I was 17.

Presenter: At that point you left thinking that you would do music?

P-Money: No. Why did I leave? I was a couple of months into the seventh form and I got bored and one day I didn't go to school anymore. I would stay at home. There was just my dad looking after me and he would be out working all day. I would stay at home and play with all of the basic equipment that I had gathered at that point. I had a couple of basic turntables and I would stay in my room just practicing. He would come home and he was like. Ok if you are not going to go back to school then you better get a part-time job. I thought that was a good way to get some records so I finally got myself a part-time job. Everything I was doing just to pass the time was music related. At that point I couldn't see it being a career. I wasn't sure how to make it happen.

Presenter: You are perceived as someone who is very strategic: whose had goals, had a plan about how to achieve those goals. Let's face it you are young, you have had remarkable success and these things don't happen by accident. As you describe it when you left school you didn't have a strategy, or a goal.

P-Money: I was developing one goal in particular. When I was out of school for about 6 months and I had been practising on my turntables I decided I wanted to be at the World DMC Championships - the world finals. So that was my only particular goal at that point.

Presenter: So that's where DJs compete?

P-Money: Yeah where hip hop DJs go and show off all their tricks. You will have 30 DJs around the world who compete at the world finals in London for a prize and the notoriety that goes with it. Your profile means you can tour the world. So I wanted to do that and that was my first goal. I made it to the World finals in 2001.

Presenter: And you got third.

P-Money: I was placed third. I didn't quite win I didn't quite reach my ultimate goal. But I surprised myself in actually getting there. Along the way so many things happened in trying to aspire to that goal I meet people and I had other experiences that took me in different directions. And all the time I was working on recording my own songs as well.

Presenter: And by the time you were placed third did it occur to you that you had created a profile that was going to be useful to you.

P-Money: Totally. Totally. By that time I had won the NZ title 3 years running. I had been exposed to a lot of media stuff, doing interviews and had a bit of a media profile. I had travelled with Che Fu's band and learned about the music industry and recording. I produced 4 songs with him. At the exact point that I was placed third I had been with Che's band for about 3 years. I was already working on my first solo album. I was starting a short-lived TV programme on TV2.

Presenter: But it seems like you have the Golden touch, because the work you have done with Che Fu wins awards, the work you have done with Scribe wins awards, your own album Magic City has already got fantastic reviews. Do you feel like you have the golden touch?

P-Money: I think I'm really fortunate. I ‘m not sure, I mean but I actually did think that today for a brief moment I don't like to entertain those thoughts too much. But I got the news today that my debut single is number one this week. The album was gold last week and we got the Silver Scrolls and all that all within about 4 days. Kind of like man I think I must be on to something,

Presenter: That's enough to turn your head isn't it.

P-Money: Yeah yeah. It's kind of like that's pretty cool. I haven't had much time to reflect on all the accolades we've received this year because I've been very busy trying to stay on top of everything. I've got a national tour starting tomorrow morning so I've been preparing for that. That's why I didn't get to the Silver Scroll ceremonies. I've been working on lots of other projects as well. So I don't know man it's pretty cool.

Presenter: Your new CD Magic City the reviewers are all describing it as having a very American sound. I imagine you will get some flak for that? Since everybody is very hyped about the New Zealand hip-hop sound?

P-Money: What is the New Zealand hip-hop sound? I'm from NZ. I make hip-hop. I'm a fan of rap music and that's what I made. It's made by me and I'm from New Zealand. Does that mean it's not a NZ sound? I don't know. I would like somebody to explain to me why it sounds American besides the voices that are on there. Two thirds of them are from America. I'll give you that. They have American accents so I guess it sounds American. But there is a good third of it that is local artists too. Perhaps those particular tracks sound American. I don't know. My influences all come from there. So maybe yes. Must do. Maybe there is a bit of both. I don't know.

Presenter: Having American vocalists does it mean that it will travel more easily, Will you be able to use that then to break into the American market.

P-Money: That's kind of the plan to get one or two tracks -

Presenter: So there you are strategic?

P-Money: Yeah but it's also something that I wanted to do as a little kid I wanted to record with people with artists from the places that I kind of grew up wishing that I could visit. Now I have visited those places and recorded with these people..

Presenter: These are places like New York and Philadelphia. You had the dream to go to New York.

P-Money: Yeah, yeah since I was very young. I wanted to be in New York since I was very 12 or 13.

Presenter: Is that just because of what you saw of New York on TV in the movies

P-Money: Everything I heard. All the music I heard. All the magazines I read. All the artists at the time that were popular and doing things were all from New York

Presenter: How old were you when you finally realised that dream.?

P-Money: I was 21.

Presenter: And what was it like?

P-Money: It was really scary and I wanted to go home. I was there was for about 4 or 5 days and I couldn't wait to leave. It was freezing cold. We touched down at JFK. Our tour guide picked us up at the airport and he said, "Let's just take the subway from JFK to near Fort Green" Anyway we were going to Brooklyn on the train from the airport. I had too much stuff so I had big bags. I couldn't keep up with the pace. My friend who had been to New York before and this guy that I had just met for the first time and they are travelling at around 100 miles an hour getting through all the people. I was just so amazed that there were so many people for a start. We changed 3 trains and I'd never been on the subway. I'm looking at people, I'm seeing images from movies that are scaring me to the death. Everyone looks like they are going to rob me. Everyone has got a scowl on their face. It's snowing and it's the coldest place I've ever been too besides Dunedin in the middle of winter. It just wasn't that pleasant.

Presenter: So this is the typical small town boy hitting the big town experience?

P-Money: Exactly It's like wow what am I getting into. Is this really the place of my dreams? As soon as I got home after the five days, I made the mission back to the airport by myself. As soon as I got home, as soon as I touched down in Auckland I wanted to go straight back. Ever since I've just wanted to go straight back and I've been back about 4 or 5 times since.

Presenter: Now when you go back and this time you were recording in New York does it feel more like the fantasy place you want it to be?

P-Money: Yeah. It's like Disneyland. All the things that I wanna do and wish that I could do here I can do there and do them really quickly and really easily and with really talented artists and there's no shortage of people to work with. At the level I'm working at everyone is really hungry. They are looking for talented producers to work with. They need music they have voices but they are short on beats. They can't afford to pay top producers. So that's where I come in. Once they see me and I dress hip hop cause I grew up with hip-hop I kind of blend in to a certain degree. And they think that's just another white kid that makes beats. And then I play them my beats and they go, "Cool, cool, so where are you from?" They think I'm going to say Queens or Brooklyn. And then I say New Zealand. And they are usually taken aback and then they start asking me a lot more questions.

Presenter: It's a good entry point actually - the NZ difference.

P-Money: Yeah it's a point of difference you know. A lot of the kids I'm working with haven't even met someone from outside New York. You've got guys from Queensbridge who don't leave their block their whole life and then they meet someone from half way around the world who makes music that they like and it sounds like it could be from where they are from. And that just trips them up. Its quite fun.

Presenter: Do you feel privileged compared to them?

P-Money: Compared to them. Yeah definitely. Yeah definitely. I'm so lucky to live in New Zealand. It's just the best place.

Presenter: This is the American dream but a boy from Papakura can actually can make it all the way to New York but a boy from the wrong side of Brooklyn can't make it -

P-Money: It's a hell of a lot tougher, it's a hell of a lot tougher for them to get here than for me to get there. I've witnessed one to one which is quite humbling and it makes you appreciate what you have got and it makes me work that much harder.

Presenter: What's the plan now? Do you get too big for NZ

P-Money: I wouldn't like to say so big because I might hurt somebody's feelings if I said I was too big for New Zealand. But I feel there's very little left for me to do to keep myself occupied here so the plan is definitely to continue to keep travelling overseas and maybe spend longer away from home. Just try and take my career a few steps further. Just keep moving in the same direction.

Presenter: What do the people who you grew up with think of this?

P-Money: Everyone's very proud and happy for me. Dudes that I grew up with, you know we listened to the same music and fans of the same artists when we like were 12 or 13. Some of those guys are still with me now. They just love it. They think it's great. Like wow. Wow. I bring them with me to the shows and on the road. I try and get them work when I can and I recommend them to people in the industry if they have any skills of use.

Presenter: What about your dad?

P-Money: Well my dad is stoked. All he ever wanted was for me to be able to support myself. He was really worried because like I say at school that I never had a particular focus I just kept messing around with this music and he never thought that that actually was a career option and neither did I for a long time. He was worried and scared that I wouldn't have any skills that I was going to be able to hold down a job and I was going to be another bum and on the dole and doing nothing. But I found my little place in the world. I managed to found that quite early on which is served me well and I have been able to follow my goals. You know.

ENDS